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Re: Giroud

Postby Gunnersaurus » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:32 pm

Oh, and I don't research and digest all your dull and boring posts, sorry about that, I skim read most of it.
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Re: Giroud

Postby Swede » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:39 pm

Gunnersaurus wrote:Well you do, you had it in your head that Ozil was going to be poor but then embaressed yourself in the other thread by retracting it after watching it back then backtracked by saying how well you want him to do when all you do is take pot shots at him to prove your point about Giroud because Ozil is given an easier ride and no one follows you into believing Giroud is World Class.


What do you want me to do? Say Ozil had a bad game, and stick to my guns even though I am wrong? I know that's how you do things, but don't ask me to do the same.

Ozil made a mess of 3 chances in a row on Saturday when we were one nil up. At the time I was annoyed, especially with the chance we have been discussing. In looking back at the game though, he did a lot of good work too.

I haven't changed my view about Ozil. I can probably find 10 posts where I have said he's clearly a great player. But he's underperformed to date. Most fans would agree with that.

But not you. You need to score some points
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Re: Giroud

Postby Swede » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:40 pm

Gunnersaurus wrote:Oh, and I don't research and digest all your dull and boring posts, sorry about that, I skim read most of it.


I love it when someone explains to us all why they were wrong instead of just apologising.
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Re: Giroud

Postby Gunnersaurus » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:40 pm

You have been digging Ozil out all season and cutting him no slack, same as with Koscienly and Mertersacker, funny enough it's something you criticise people with eyes who view Giroud as an ok striker about.
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Re: Giroud

Postby Gunnersaurus » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:44 pm

Oh, I have complimented Giroud when he does well, criticise him when he doesn't, there's no agenda just he's not the best (and not the worst) hence why he's spoken about more often then not.

No big deal, get over it, you think he's World Class, the rest of us just think you're on a wind up.
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Giroud

Postby JLAS » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:58 pm

Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.
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Giroud

Postby I Believe Overall » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:33 am

JLAS wrote:
Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.


thats an interesting perspective. Successful Arsenal sides have nearly always had game winners up front while I've been watching them (apart from 89 when it was a more team based effort). Wrighty, Anelka, Henry - I wonder if Alexis can become that for us if played through the middle? However, we do get a lot of goals with Giroud in the team so its not all bad...its been at the back that has cost us wins in the main. I know its all related - i.e. if we are more solid then it can take more genius up front to score but I do think we need a worldy CB and probably CM to cover for Coq who could be a great asset for many years as more of a priority than changing a scoring team.
me neither
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Giroud

Postby JLAS » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:55 am

I Believe Overall wrote:
JLAS wrote:
Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.


thats an interesting perspective. Successful Arsenal sides have nearly always had game winners up front while I've been watching them (apart from 89 when it was a more team based effort). Wrighty, Anelka, Henry - I wonder if Alexis can become that for us if played through the middle? However, we do get a lot of goals with Giroud in the team so its not all bad...its been at the back that has cost us wins in the main. I know its all related - i.e. if we are more solid then it can take more genius up front to score but I do think we need a worldy CB and probably CM to cover for Coq who could be a great asset for many years as more of a priority than changing a scoring team.


I agree that we won't win the league either if we continue to defend the way we do, but I think the defensive issues goes deeper than just the players we have. It wasn't always Per and Kos playing at the back, we've tried Vermaelen and others before and still had the same problems. Is it the way we set up? Tactics? Coaching? The home leg against Monaco was beyond embarrassing.

I'd like to think the emergence of Coquelin has showed Wenger the importance of having someone protecting the back 4 and maybe he will go out and buy a proven CDM, not that I have a problem with how Coq is progressing.

It's just easier to judge a center forward, which is probably why I'm more opinionated on Giroud. He does deserve credit for how he's played this season, but my opinion is still the same, I can't see us winning a major trophy with him as our main striker.
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Giroud

Postby Denten » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:44 pm

He has just come on against Brazil thefrench are 3-1 down with 10 mins to go.
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Postby Red Army » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:36 pm

With Giroud I have always been in the "good but not good enough for us" camp but since his return from injury he has been very good(Monaco aside) and has certainly improved, how anyone can say he hasn't is beyond me, I do think that since he's come back into the team Sanchez's form seems to have dipped, coincidence??
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Postby Rainham Red » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:47 pm

Red Army wrote:With Giroud I have always been in the "good but not good enough for us" camp but since his return from injury he has been very good(Monaco aside) and has certainly improved, how anyone can say he hasn't is beyond me, I do think that since he's come back into the team Sanchez's form seems to have dipped, coincidence??


People also say Sanchez form has dipped since Ozil came back.Personally I think Sanchez is just tired out and should be rested.
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Giroud

Postby Red Army » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:00 pm

Rainham Red wrote:
Red Army wrote:With Giroud I have always been in the "good but not good enough for us" camp but since his return from injury he has been very good(Monaco aside) and has certainly improved, how anyone can say he hasn't is beyond me, I do think that since he's come back into the team Sanchez's form seems to have dipped, coincidence??


People also say Sanchez form has dipped since Ozil came back.Personally I think Sanchez is just tired out and should be rested.


You're most likely right but at this stage of the season with every game a must win it's hard to rest him, internationals don't help either.
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Giroud

Postby Gunnersaurus » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:50 pm

He could have done with missing out on this pointless friendly at the Weekend.

A two week break would have been good for him, saying that, he did miss a few weeks through injury so how much of a rest does he really need and could he just not be suffering from a dip in form?
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Giroud

Postby Swede » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:41 pm

JLAS wrote:
Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.


Hi JLAS, hope you are well - respect your opinion however I think you are over-thinking things regarding Giroud.

He's a striker who has been making goals and scoring goals for 2 seasons at the highest level. Some of his assists have been sublime and some of his goals have also been top drawer. I'm not sure what more he needs to do to be regarded as a top class world striker.

I agree, and have always agreed that he's not in the league of Thierry Henry, Aguero, Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, etc.

But in the same bracket as RVP, Drogba, Costa, etc., yes he's there or he's very close to them. RVP is better than him in terms of skill, but actually will be interesting at the end of their careers to look back. RVP only had 2 really exceptional seasons. Otherwise he has been fragile, temperamental, inconsistent, selfish. One of the many things I like about Giroud is that he's reliable (only really one bad injury), honest and consistent (odd game apart). Giroud's strength is that he offers a team a lot. His skill is definitely under-rated, but even if you don't rate him there, then he has good link play, decent finishing, decent in the air, great first touch, works for the team. I have no doubt we could win a title with our current strike force, including midfielders in that.

And yes, our problem the last 5 years probably has been in defence, and DFM. We have never struggled to score goals. We are hopeless at defending crosses into the box in particular. For me the boss and our fans have consistently over-rated our central defenders - Vermaelen, Koscielny and Metersacker. I maintain the reason for this is that they can look like world beaters when up against poor teams week in week out. There is just a massive difference to playing against average strikers and top class ones. And I do think Arsenal has struggled to find a DFM. It may be more crucial for Arsenal to have a top class DFM than other clubs because of the way we play. I hope Coq is going to resolve that or we sign someone.
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Re: Giroud

Postby NickF » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:57 pm

Must admit, I was going to argue but checking out Drogba's stats he wasn't actually as great as you might think. He scored a lot past us and he must have scored a lot of important goals.

Still not sure I'd put Giroud up there with Costa as I'm not convinced Giroud is going to get us 20 to 30 league goals a season.
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Giroud

Postby Denten » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:34 am

He made a real big difference yesterday when he came on.

My MOTM,but to be fair there was not much of an alternative.
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Giroud

Postby ForeverRed » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:57 am

The way he holds up the ball and brings others into play is fantastic.
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Re: Giroud

Postby FOYS » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:43 pm

Was saying to Clocky yesterday how much Giroud has improved this season. Still don't think we'll win the PL with him as our number one striker though.
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Giroud

Postby Thynker » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:35 pm

I Believe Overall wrote:
JLAS wrote:
Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.


thats an interesting perspective. Successful Arsenal sides have nearly always had game winners up front while I've been watching them (apart from 89 when it was a more team based effort). Wrighty, Anelka, Henry - I wonder if Alexis can become that for us if played through the middle? However, we do get a lot of goals with Giroud in the team so its not all bad...its been at the back that has cost us wins in the main. I know its all related - i.e. if we are more solid then it can take more genius up front to score but I do think we need a worldy CB and probably CM to cover for Coq who could be a great asset for many years as more of a priority than changing a scoring team.


Pogobrenyak (or however it's spelt) fu.ck.ed up two situations where we left them with 2 on 1 at the back.
Awful defending.
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Giroud

Postby Thynker » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:37 pm

Swede wrote:
JLAS wrote:
Swede wrote:Giroud's doing this season what he did last season


I'd say he's playing better this season than last. I don't think he had scored against any of the big 4 then, he has scored at City, Liverpool and got a late consolation against Utd at home. I think I argued in the old Giroud thread that he never scores headers, but has got a few since, so i'll give credit where it's due on both counts.

I still do not think he is good enough to challenge for the top honours. It seems like he only scores if the team are playing well. He's not really someone who can single handedly win games is he? If you look back at recent title winners; Aguero, RVP, Henry, Drogba are all players you can refer to and say they won an extra 10-15 odd points to the final points tally. Can you win the league without a player like that?

He more than has a place in the squad, but still think we can do better here as first choice.

To be honest, I am more disappointed with Welbeck, I know he's been in and out of the team and moved positions, but I was expecting more goals from him, almost a Daniel Sturridge like revival after moving clubs. Maybe next season.


Hi JLAS, hope you are well - respect your opinion however I think you are over-thinking things regarding Giroud.

He's a striker who has been making goals and scoring goals for 2 seasons at the highest level. Some of his assists have been sublime and some of his goals have also been top drawer. I'm not sure what more he needs to do to be regarded as a top class world striker.

I agree, and have always agreed that he's not in the league of Thierry Henry, Aguero, Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, etc.

But in the same bracket as RVP, Drogba, Costa, etc., yes he's there or he's very close to them. RVP is better than him in terms of skill, but actually will be interesting at the end of their careers to look back. RVP only had 2 really exceptional seasons. Otherwise he has been fragile, temperamental, inconsistent, selfish. One of the many things I like about Giroud is that he's reliable (only really one bad injury), honest and consistent (odd game apart). Giroud's strength is that he offers a team a lot. His skill is definitely under-rated, but even if you don't rate him there, then he has good link play, decent finishing, decent in the air, great first touch, works for the team. I have no doubt we could win a title with our current strike force, including midfielders in that.

And yes, our problem the last 5 years probably has been in defence, and DFM. We have never struggled to score goals. We are hopeless at defending crosses into the box in particular. For me the boss and our fans have consistently over-rated our central defenders - Vermaelen, Koscielny and Metersacker. I maintain the reason for this is that they can look like world beaters when up against poor teams week in week out. There is just a massive difference to playing against average strikers and top class ones. And I do think Arsenal has struggled to find a DFM. It may be more crucial for Arsenal to have a top class DFM than other clubs because of the way we play. I hope Coq is going to resolve that or we sign someone.



A top world class striker needs to be better than a 'decent finisher'
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