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Where will we finish this season?

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potter
(@potter)
Famed Member

Whilst It is stating the obvious that money buys quality players, it's too easy a kop out to hide behind . We have been on the brink a few times and it wasn't cash that defeated us it was a degree of ineptitude.

"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth."

It would be foolish to think otherwise

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:05 pm
Johnno-bh
(@johnno-bh)
Trusted Member

Whilst It is stating the obvious that money buys quality players, it's too easy a kop out to hide behind . We have been on the brink a few times and it wasn't cash that defeated us it was a degree of ineptitude.

agree
the fact that we have been on the brink without the finacial muscle, leads me to believe that with it we can take that extra step. and the manager has earned the right to have a couple of seasons splashing the cash so to speak. exciting times ahead me thinks.

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:12 pm
islandboy
(@islandboy)
Estimable Member

Whilst It is stating the obvious that money buys quality players, it's too easy a kop out to hide behind . We have been on the brink a few times and it wasn't cash that defeated us it was a degree of ineptitude.

Ineptitude!!!!!! Surely not unless it was on behalf of some of the referees who were blatently biased in their decision making, How else would the like of the Mancs get their rewards without assistance.

Now come on "KEEP THE FAITH" Its far to early to predict our eventual position so I go for 1st place until it is'nt!!!!!

Dodgyrog is my name and Islandboy is where my location is.

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:15 pm
potter
(@potter)
Famed Member

Ineptitude!!!!!! Surely not unless it was on behalf of some of the referees who were blatently biased in their decision making, How else would the like of the Mancs get their rewards without assistance.

Now come on we are trying to have a serious conversation

"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth."

It would be foolish to think otherwise

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:17 pm
Tel
 Tel
(@tel)
Trusted Member

You say it's up to the players to do it for themselves that is true but, it's also up to the manager to set up a system for them to operate in. For too many years we have seen the tried and trusted system fail against these teams, needs shaking up a bit.

This is the problem. His lack of tactical nous is astounding, we'll play 4-3-3 forever irrespective of whose fit and who we play. This is why we haven't won anything for 8 years which will continue while he remains.

you seem very reluctant to accept that there are so many outside factors that have played a part in this time, including the cost of a stadium, an infux of sugar daddies spending 100s of millions at our rivals ect ect. have you also forgotten that he has actually managed to take the club to a cup final in this time ? a cup final that yes we should have won but this was down to the players on the day. so in the time frame that you mention the manager has proved that he can take a side all the way, that group of players couldnt take that extra step, this current group looks more together, more hungry and now has one of the top 5 players in the world to help take us to that next level.

And you appear very reluctant to see this is about more than money. We've had great players over the last 8 years and won nothing because we were outfought, outplayed and tactically left behind by cleverer coaches. The big teams consistently beat us partially because of their finances but a lot of it is due to tactical ineptitude on Wengers part. Swamp the midfield and let us keep the ball 40 yards from goal is something the big teams do to us time and time again. Why would you want it to continue for 2 years?

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:18 pm
Tel
 Tel
(@tel)
Trusted Member

Whilst It is stating the obvious that money buys quality players, it's too easy a kop out to hide behind . We have been on the brink a few times and it wasn't cash that defeated us it was a degree of ineptitude.

Ineptitude!!!!!! Surely not unless it was on behalf of some of the referees who were blatently biased in their decision making, How else would the like of the Mancs get their rewards without assistance.

Now come on "KEEP THE FAITH" Its far to early to predict our eventual position so I go for 1st place until it is'nt!!!!!

Thanks Islandboy. The argument is well and truly fucked when you mention referred bias. smack1

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:20 pm
FOYS
 FOYS
(@foys)
Famed Member

If winning trophies is all down to spending money, then we would never have won anything under George Graham.

What did she wear......
She wore,she wore,she wore a yellow ribbon......

Keep St George in my heart keep me English......

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Posted : 08/09/2013 6:29 pm
Johnno-bh
(@johnno-bh)
Trusted Member

If winning trophies is all down to spending money, then we would never have won anything under George Graham.

those were the days. different ball game now days.

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Posted : 08/09/2013 7:03 pm
Johnno-bh
(@johnno-bh)
Trusted Member

You say it's up to the players to do it for themselves that is true but, it's also up to the manager to set up a system for them to operate in. For too many years we have seen the tried and trusted system fail against these teams, needs shaking up a bit.

This is the problem. His lack of tactical nous is astounding, we'll play 4-3-3 forever irrespective of whose fit and who we play. This is why we haven't won anything for 8 years which will continue while he remains.

you seem very reluctant to accept that there are so many outside factors that have played a part in this time, including the cost of a stadium, an infux of sugar daddies spending 100s of millions at our rivals ect ect. have you also forgotten that he has actually managed to take the club to a cup final in this time ? a cup final that yes we should have won but this was down to the players on the day. so in the time frame that you mention the manager has proved that he can take a side all the way, that group of players couldnt take that extra step, this current group looks more together, more hungry and now has one of the top 5 players in the world to help take us to that next level.

And you appear very reluctant to see this is about more than money. We've had great players over the last 8 years and won nothing because we were outfought, outplayed and tactically left behind by cleverer coaches. The big teams consistently beat us partially because of their finances but a lot of it is due to tactical ineptitude on Wengers part. Swamp the midfield and let us keep the ball 40 yards from goal is something the big teams do to us time and time again. Why would you want it to continue for 2 years?

because there has been a noticable change this transfer window. and the manager has earned the right to spend some money.

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Posted : 08/09/2013 7:07 pm
FOYS
 FOYS
(@foys)
Famed Member

If winning trophies is all down to spending money, then we would never have won anything under George Graham.

those were the days. different ball game now days.

Not really if you have a tactically astute manager.

What did she wear......
She wore,she wore,she wore a yellow ribbon......

Keep St George in my heart keep me English......

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Posted : 08/09/2013 7:11 pm
doritobrother
(@doritobrother)
Honorable Member

I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, but money is a massive factor in determining whether a club wins trophies or not.

“I am going to make this the greatest club in the world.” Herbert Chapman, 1925

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Posted : 09/09/2013 2:16 am
Johnno-bh
(@johnno-bh)
Trusted Member

If winning trophies is all down to spending money, then we would never have won anything under George Graham.

those were the days. different ball game now days.

Not really if you have a tactically astute manager.

come on FOYS now i know you cant really mean this. totally different game now days. no one spent huge amounts in those days for a start, and i could start to list the differences between then and now, but this would probably wear out the keyboard.

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Posted : 09/09/2013 6:00 am
louder
(@louder)
Illustrious Member

I don't think our Manager has been massively outwitted in the past at all. He has been beaten by teams that have been far more heavily invested in i.e They have had the better players. Either that, or they have rode their luck in the extreme to pull off a shock result - Something that happens to all top sides.
And I don't need 50 games or a trophy for me to see the positives. But you hold out on all things, bar negative criticism, until then..........Enjoy the season, and Up Le Arsenal

You must have missed all the big games where Fergie, Mancini & countless Chelsea managers swamped their midfields with spoilers who stopped us playing. Wenger cannot cope with a tactically astute manager and our successes in those games are now very few and far between. While you talk about money how many times did Darren Fletcher stifle our midfield? How much did he cost? Before we can finish higher this issue needs to be addressed.

Swamped their midfields ? You mean played five in the middle as they do most of the time ? And with Spoilers ? Are you seriously saying that United , City and Chelsea have a large collection of very expensive spoilers in their midfield ? Honestly mate, I think you need to go back over who they've had in their squads ove the past 5 to 10 years.
And are you really trying to say that we've habitually lost to Manure over the years because of Darren Fletcher ? In his defence, while he was in form he was a very good all-round player imo, but rarely did we ever lose to them because of one player. Football is a team game !

"Arsene is a perfect fit for Arsenal. This is the classiest club out there" - Graeme Souness.

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Posted : 09/09/2013 12:14 pm
louder
(@louder)
Illustrious Member

If winning trophies is all down to spending money, then we would never have won anything under George Graham.

those were the days. different ball game now days.

Not really if you have a tactically astute manager.

Makes little difference when you're talking about regularly winning the top trophies !

"Arsene is a perfect fit for Arsenal. This is the classiest club out there" - Graeme Souness.

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Posted : 09/09/2013 12:17 pm
louder
(@louder)
Illustrious Member

Doesn't matter where the players come from and how much they cost , when they get on the pitch it's 11 against 11 . You can hide behind money as much as you like but the truth is that the tactic was used against us time and again and we did little or nothing to combat it. Tactics are about winning individual games , that's why you get cup shocks , many teams played expansive football until they played us but on those games their manager's worked us out , put up their midfield screens and choked the life out of our game.

morning potter, but the money spent dictates the quality of player on the pitch more often than not, teams that spend the most often have the most success. chelsea and man city are prime examples if they didnt have the seemingly infinate funds at their disposal would either side have won the league ?

The highlighted bit is a sure sign that P has a grudge that he is unwilling to let go. The fact that you had to point out the right bleedin' obvious to him, Johhno, says it all.

Doesn't matter how much a player costs ? It jolly well does over the 9 months, Potter. Or should I call you Potty ?

"Arsene is a perfect fit for Arsenal. This is the classiest club out there" - Graeme Souness.

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Posted : 09/09/2013 12:27 pm
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